{"id":11545,"date":"2021-05-11T12:00:41","date_gmt":"2021-05-11T11:00:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.westwoodenergy.com\/?p=11545"},"modified":"2025-04-16T15:47:58","modified_gmt":"2025-04-16T14:47:58","slug":"energy-transition-now-podcast-episode-1-with-william-day","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.westwoodenergy.com\/news\/video-podcasts\/energy-transition-now-podcast-episode-1-with-william-day","title":{"rendered":"Energy Transition Now Podcast &#8211; Episode 1 with William Day"},"content":{"rendered":"[vc_row type=&#8221;in_container&#8221; full_screen_row_position=&#8221;middle&#8221; column_margin=&#8221;default&#8221; column_direction=&#8221;default&#8221; column_direction_tablet=&#8221;default&#8221; column_direction_phone=&#8221;default&#8221; scene_position=&#8221;center&#8221; text_color=&#8221;dark&#8221; text_align=&#8221;left&#8221; row_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; row_border_radius_applies=&#8221;bg&#8221; overflow=&#8221;visible&#8221; overlay_strength=&#8221;0.3&#8243; gradient_direction=&#8221;left_to_right&#8221; shape_divider_position=&#8221;bottom&#8221; bg_image_animation=&#8221;none&#8221;][vc_column column_padding=&#8221;no-extra-padding&#8221; column_padding_tablet=&#8221;inherit&#8221; column_padding_phone=&#8221;inherit&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;all&#8221; column_element_direction_desktop=&#8221;default&#8221; column_element_spacing=&#8221;default&#8221; desktop_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; tablet_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; phone_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; background_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; background_hover_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; column_backdrop_filter=&#8221;none&#8221; column_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; column_link_target=&#8221;_self&#8221; column_position=&#8221;default&#8221; gradient_direction=&#8221;left_to_right&#8221; overlay_strength=&#8221;0.3&#8243; width=&#8221;1\/1&#8243; tablet_width_inherit=&#8221;default&#8221; animation_type=&#8221;default&#8221; bg_image_animation=&#8221;none&#8221; border_type=&#8221;simple&#8221; column_border_width=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_style=&#8221;solid&#8221;][nectar_animated_title heading_tag=&#8221;h3&#8243; style=&#8221;color-strip-reveal&#8221; color=&#8221;Accent-Color&#8221; text=&#8221;Energy Transition Now &#8211; Episode 1 with William Day&#8221;][vc_column_text]\n<div>\n<div>\n<p>In the first of Westwood\u2019s Energy Transition Now podcasts, David Linden speaks with Sustainability Consultant, William Day.<\/p>\n<p>During this episode, David and Will explore what sustainability, the energy transition and achieving \u2018net zero\u2019 really means; both for our economies as a whole and the use of fossil fuels. They then turn to what the oil and gas industry should do now to succeed in an evolving environment, and what potential legal and financial risks the industry faces if it does not act in line with the climate science and Paris agreement.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div style=\"padding: 56.25% 0 0 0; position: relative;\"><iframe style=\"position: absolute; top: 0; left: 0; width: 100%; height: 100%;\" title=\"Et Podcast, Episode 1 Waveform First Cut-1.mp4\" src=\"https:\/\/player.vimeo.com\/video\/545832409?badge=0&amp;autopause=0&amp;player_id=0&amp;app_id=58479\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n[\/vc_column_text][nectar_animated_title heading_tag=&#8221;h3&#8243; style=&#8221;color-strip-reveal&#8221; color=&#8221;Accent-Color&#8221; text=&#8221;About Will&#8221;][\/vc_column][\/vc_row][vc_row type=&#8221;in_container&#8221; full_screen_row_position=&#8221;middle&#8221; column_margin=&#8221;default&#8221; column_direction=&#8221;default&#8221; column_direction_tablet=&#8221;default&#8221; 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title=&#8221;Bio&#8221; id=&#8221;1744814799743-3&#8243; tab_id=&#8221;1744814799744-4&#8243;][vc_row_inner column_margin=&#8221;default&#8221; column_direction=&#8221;default&#8221; column_direction_tablet=&#8221;default&#8221; column_direction_phone=&#8221;default&#8221; text_align=&#8221;left&#8221; row_position=&#8221;default&#8221; row_position_tablet=&#8221;inherit&#8221; row_position_phone=&#8221;inherit&#8221; overflow=&#8221;visible&#8221; pointer_events=&#8221;all&#8221;][vc_column_inner column_padding=&#8221;no-extra-padding&#8221; column_padding_tablet=&#8221;inherit&#8221; column_padding_phone=&#8221;inherit&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;all&#8221; column_element_direction_desktop=&#8221;default&#8221; column_element_spacing=&#8221;default&#8221; desktop_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; tablet_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; phone_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; background_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; background_hover_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; column_backdrop_filter=&#8221;none&#8221; column_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; column_link_target=&#8221;_self&#8221; overflow=&#8221;visible&#8221; gradient_direction=&#8221;left_to_right&#8221; overlay_strength=&#8221;0.3&#8243; width=&#8221;1\/4&#8243; tablet_width_inherit=&#8221;default&#8221; animation_type=&#8221;default&#8221; bg_image_animation=&#8221;none&#8221; border_type=&#8221;simple&#8221; column_border_width=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_style=&#8221;solid&#8221;][image_with_animation image_url=&#8221;11554&#8243; image_size=&#8221;full&#8221; animation_type=&#8221;entrance&#8221; animation=&#8221;Fade In&#8221; animation_easing=&#8221;default&#8221; animation_movement_type=&#8221;transform_y&#8221; hover_animation=&#8221;none&#8221; alignment=&#8221;&#8221; border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; box_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; image_loading=&#8221;default&#8221; max_width=&#8221;100%&#8221; max_width_mobile=&#8221;default&#8221;][\/vc_column_inner][vc_column_inner column_padding=&#8221;no-extra-padding&#8221; column_padding_tablet=&#8221;inherit&#8221; column_padding_phone=&#8221;inherit&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;all&#8221; column_element_direction_desktop=&#8221;default&#8221; column_element_spacing=&#8221;default&#8221; desktop_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; tablet_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; phone_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; background_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; background_hover_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; column_backdrop_filter=&#8221;none&#8221; column_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; column_link_target=&#8221;_self&#8221; overflow=&#8221;visible&#8221; gradient_direction=&#8221;left_to_right&#8221; overlay_strength=&#8221;0.3&#8243; width=&#8221;3\/4&#8243; tablet_width_inherit=&#8221;default&#8221; animation_type=&#8221;default&#8221; bg_image_animation=&#8221;none&#8221; border_type=&#8221;simple&#8221; column_border_width=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_style=&#8221;solid&#8221;][vc_column_text]Will is Sustainability Advisor, and a Fellow of the University of Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership (CISL) and Chairman of the Sainsbury\u2019s Foundation Advisory Board.<br \/>\nHe sits on the Advisory Boards of SDGLead, a Danish impact investment consultancy and The Hatchery, a South African agri-focused investment fund. Will is also Chairman of On Purpose, developing leaders for Social Enterprise, and a Member of the Council of Ambassadors of WWF (UK).[\/vc_column_text][vc_column_text]Previously, will was Chairman of the UK government Sustainable Development Commission, and a member of the P&amp;G Sustainability Advisory Board. He was involved with the establishment of Comic Relief, and it\u2019s first grants director for Africa, was Chairman of the BBC Children in Need Appeal and Special Advisor to the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP). Will was Trustee, and latterly Chairman, of the Overseas Development Institute (ODI). Until 2018, he was Chairman of Water and Sanitation for the Urban Poor (WSUP).<\/p>\n<p>Earlier in his career Will worked for Save the Children Fund and Oxfam in humanitarian relief programmes in East Africa, was Director of the micro-savings and credit organisation Opportunity, and CEO of CARE International UK for 8 years.[\/vc_column_text][\/vc_column_inner][\/vc_row_inner][\/tab][tab icon_family=&#8221;none&#8221; title=&#8221;Episode Transcript&#8221; id=&#8221;1744814799930-5&#8243; tab_id=&#8221;1744814799930-0&#8243;][vc_column_text]DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Hello everyone and thanks for tuning in.\u00a0 I am your host David Linden from Westwood Global Energy Group and you are listening to the first in a series of new energy transition new podcasts.\u00a0 The aim of these podcasts is to discuss and explore what the energy transition really means for energy and specifically the oil and gas industry.\u00a0 In this first part or chapter of our series, we will look at the response of the industry as a whole and we have got the International Association of Oil and Gas Producers, IOGP and the Oil and Gas Climate Initiative OGCI to help us with that.\u00a0 But to set the context around all of this, I wanted to invite someone who is not part of the industry to give an outsiders view of sustainability, the energy transition and how the industry should be viewing things and that very excellent individual is Will Day.<\/p>\n<p>Now, Will is a Sustainability Advisor and among other things sits on or is chair of a number of sustainability related advisory boards.\u00a0 He is also a fellow at the Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership or CISL, which is how I know him.\u00a0 Needless to say, he has an incredible impact throughout his almost 40-year career of working with NGOs and businesses on sustainable development and he continues this by advising boards, exec teams, governments around the world in helping to understand and identify the strategic risks and opportunities that they face as the world evolves.\u00a0 For clarity though, Will is speaking to us as an independent advisor today. \u00a0Will, a very warm welcome, great to have you on the podcast.<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 Thank you, David.<\/p>\n<p>DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Did I miss anything on your background at all?<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 No, I think that was fine.\u00a0 Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Perfect, perfect.\u00a0 Let\u2019s go back to basics then to kick us off for the listener.\u00a0 Could you maybe just explain to us what is sustainability as such and why is achieving it important?<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 So, sustainability is a useful word in some ways and not in others because it\u2019s often misunderstood.\u00a0 A definition would be meeting the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their needs, which basically means don\u2019t spoil the future for future generations.\u00a0 I think it often gets confused.\u00a0 I hear lots of people talk about sustained growth or sustainable growth and they confuse those two things.\u00a0 Sustained growth is we keep growing and sustainable growth is we recognise the boundaries of over and unsustainable consumption.\u00a0 Why is it important?\u00a0 It\u2019s important because if we don\u2019t do that thing, we are walking down a short plank with a very long drop off it.\u00a0 If you look at the consequences of climate\u2026and not just environmental issues like climate and biodiversity but getting the social things wrong as well.\u00a0 Importantly, sustainability has a social ingredient, not just an environmental one.<\/p>\n<p>DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay, it\u2019s not just all about carbon and carbon emissions?<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 It isn\u2019t, although clearly that\u2019s often at the forefront of the conversation because we are seeing the practical consequences of a warming planet on an hourly, let alone a daily or a weekly basis.\u00a0 So, it tends to draw the attention but sustainable development itself is a broader idea.<\/p>\n<p>DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 What are the implications for the energy industry as a whole and not just oil and gas but why is it we ultimately need, I guess, an energy transition?<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 Well, I think one of the reasons why the sector is in the spotlight is the fossil fuel element of energy, I think energy per se is hugely important.\u00a0 We will need and have based our growth of our economies on the use and exportation of energy.\u00a0 It\u2019s the fossil fuel element; it\u2019s the greenhouse gas part of that, which is the problem.\u00a0 So, that\u2019s why within the energy sector, oil and gas has been\u2026and coal particularly has been the focus of attention because the science is pretty undeniable, and the science says that we have over time put much more carbon dioxide equivalent into the atmosphere than is sustainable in the sense of a balance between temperature and the environment.\u00a0 So, it\u2019s important not just for the energy sector, you know, we have got large chunks of the world\u2019s economy, which also produces greenhouse gases but in some ways, fossil fuel is the most easily identifiable one.<\/p>\n<p>DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay, okay.\u00a0 And maybe for the listeners just to, sort of, put it into context, as you said there, there are other elements or other parts of our economy, which are also producing carbon or inputting carbon into our atmosphere, which is not helping with the warming of the planet.\u00a0 But is energy the prime driver here in terms of carbon emissions or is it concrete production or what are we looking at?<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 That\u2019s why it\u2019s, kind of, inconvenient because it\u2019s the whole economy, David.\u00a0 Actually, if you look at where those emissions come from, of course they come from fossil fuel.\u00a0 Not just the use and burning of it for heating and cooling our houses or buildings for example but a third or so of global emissions come from land use and agriculture.\u00a0 So, it\u2019s not just about moving to electric cars and renewable energy, it\u2019s about understanding where these emissions come from and what needs to happen to reduce and minimise them.\u00a0 It\u2019s one of the reasons why net zero is emerging as the only really feasible objective for organisations who are in control of their emissions, such as energy users or energy producers.<\/p>\n<p>DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay, that\u2019s interesting.\u00a0 Thanks for also bringing up that net zero idea, it\u2019s something that the oil and gas industry has started to focus on as an area, you know, net zero emissions etcetera, etcetera.\u00a0 It is frankly quite confusing when we have just had the Paris Agreement and they have talked about different temperatures you need to reach or goals that we are setting.\u00a0 What is different about net zero, what does it really mean?<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 Well, I think the reason it\u2019s there as I have suggested is because there are chunks of our economic activity, which we will find very difficult to reduce the emissions from.\u00a0 Food production is an obvious one, which means that if we are in control of any of those things and we have alternatives, we will need to get to them as quickly as we can.\u00a0 The science is pretty clear; we have got about 10 years to get our emissions down to pretty much zero globally.\u00a0 So, anything, which can be replaced or transformed, will need to be because we will then have to work on the difficult bits.<\/p>\n<p>I mean to give you some sense of it, at the moment we are heading for about a 3.8-degree global increase in temperature.\u00a0 The insurance industry has said that if we get to 4-degrees, the world is uninsurable and the banks have said if we get to 4-degrees and its uninsurable, it\u2019s then unbankable because the risks become too great.\u00a0 So, the costs of not getting carbon emissions down and dramatically are basically the success or failure of the global economy and that\u2019s a pretty high price to pay.<\/p>\n<p>DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Absolutely.\u00a0 There\u2019s an interesting point you made there, which is you have got 10 years.\u00a0 For clarity, is that 10 years to get to net zero or is that 10 years to make the right kind of action to get to net zero by I guess mid-century?<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 No, the science is pretty clear.\u00a0 My colleagues at the British Antarctic Survey tell me that we will need to get globally to net zero by the middle of the century, physically get there and then we will have to remove carbon from the atmosphere for the rest of the century if we are going to hold the increase to 1.5-degrees and that\u2019s the sort of number that science says is kind of safe, although it is an increase on what is happening now and we are already seeing the consequences in terms of climate and food production and water of the existing increase, which is something over a degree already.<\/p>\n<p>So, no the 10 years is to get us down certainly on a very steep glide path down.\u00a0 The science says if we can\u2019t get globally to net zero by the middle of the century, then there\u2019s a very high price to pay and of course what that does David, is it means that, you know, you mentioned the word transition in your introduction.\u00a0 I actually much prefer the word transformation.\u00a0 It seems to me that transition could be made to last a long time if we are not careful and the science is pretty clear that we haven\u2019t got very long, we will need to transform the business.<\/p>\n<p>DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So, with that word transformation then in our minds here, I mean what is it that oil and gas or fossil fuel businesses but, you know, specifically I guess the oil and gas sector, there\u2019s already a lot happening on the coal side.\u00a0 What should oil and gas be doing now to\u2026well, I guess either support or be part of that transformation?<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 Well, I suppose the first thing is the shift in mindset really.\u00a0 It\u2019s invidious to name names but I have been interested to watch BP redefine itself, \u2018We are not an international oil company, we are an integrated energy company,\u2019 that feels to me like a necessary first step, which is, \u2018We are not oil and gas but we are energy because the world needs energy,\u2019 how do we do that in a way which meets the other requirements of humankind and the wider, kind of, ecosystems that we rely upon?\u00a0 So, the first thing is a mindset.<\/p>\n<p>The second thing I think is to try and resist those voices that say, \u2018Make this last as long as you can, you have got valuable assets pinned to the ocean floors and drilling rigs and expensive bits of kit, let\u2019s make them last as long as we can.\u2019\u00a0 I think that is a defensive posture, which will be very hard to justify.\u00a0 We are already seeing the legal system being used to bring cases against oil and gas producers for their historic emissions because people are saying, \u2018You have knowingly caused a problem to me, you will now be liable for that.\u2019\u00a0 So, I think the advice is going to come not just from science, but I suspect it will come from people\u2019s legal departments as well.<\/p>\n<p>DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 That\u2019s very\u2026what about things like, you know, a lot of companies certainly in the last year, there has been a lot of momentum from the oil and gas industry to recognise\u2026and this has been a longer-term point as well but recognition that scope one and two, sort of, emissions coming from operations and particular things like methane leakage and, you know, on the flaring side and reducing routine flaring etcetera, that\u2019s been a big focus and I think that will ramp up more as we go forward as well.\u00a0 I mean what are your thoughts on those aspects, the industry trying to play a part and getting a license to operate?<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 Clearly all activity in that area is good.\u00a0 These are, you know, polluting and damaging emissions but I suppose my starting point is it\u2019s not enough just to do the wrong thing better.\u00a0 We are going to pollute less, we are going to emit less, this is fine and as I said, I wouldn\u2019t discourage that and there are people working very hard and innovating to reduce methane leakage for example, but it is still the wrong thing in scientific terms.<\/p>\n<p>And the question I suppose companies must ask themselves is, so what is the right thing?\u00a0 If we are trying to do the wrong thing better, what is the right thing and that\u2019s where the, kind of, mindset shift I think needs to come in.\u00a0 I am not going to in any way suggest people should slow down their efforts to reduce emissions, the more the merrier, but not if it\u2019s a justification for keeping fossil fuel in the system for longer than science tells us it needs to be there.<\/p>\n<p>DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And what about, you know, you started to talk about this from the banking and the insurance side of things and also potentially from the legal side of things.\u00a0 What ultimately do you see is the risk of these companies not acting now?\u00a0 I appreciate there is a science angle, which is we might not hit our targets but there must be also risks to the companies themselves?<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 Oh, I think there\u2019s existential risk.\u00a0 I think society and politics will not tolerate damage to the environment.\u00a0 Let\u2019s face it, the consequences of a changing climate are going to get more and more acute, bigger and stronger, you know, hotter hot, wetter wet, dryer dry.\u00a0 We are going to see stronger and worse impact on humans, and they will say, \u2018Stop this, make this thing go away,\u2019 and they will then turn around and say, \u2018Well, who is to blame for it?\u2019\u00a0 That\u2019s why, you know, I have already mentioned the fact that the legal profession is now looking at the activities of companies emitting\u2026and who have been emitting over, you know, decades and the perception is they have enriched themselves by doing so, they will be held to account.<\/p>\n<p>New York is suing Exon for the cost of defending Manhattan against rising sea level.\u00a0 A Peruvian small hold farmer is suing RWE for their historic emissions affecting ice in the Peruvian Andes.\u00a0 So, we are looking at significant and novel risks I think, which are I am hoping in boardrooms where companies are looking now strategically at what their choices are and the price and the cost of doing nothing, versus the price and cost of adapting and being part of the new economy, not the old one.<\/p>\n<p>DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And in terms of, you know, you talked about someone like a BP changing their mindset and you can see that\u2019s starting to filter through to some of the businesses and the supply chain.\u00a0 What is it that some of these businesses can actually use as a guide to change?\u00a0 Because again it is a very confusing space, you have had the Paris Agreement and people talk about the Paris Aligned.\u00a0 You have also had all sorts of different transparency requirements come out, different targets being set, governments maybe running at different speeds in terms of the ambition they are setting.\u00a0 What is it they should be doing here in terms of, you know, this is what I should follow because this is going to allow me to get to a position that\u2019s aligned with where the world is going?<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 David, I don\u2019t think any of that is limited to oil and gas or energy businesses.\u00a0 I think every business in the world now is expected to understand its impact on climate and the impact of a changing climate on their business.\u00a0 I think the investment community is now requiring it; the regulators are increasingly requiring transparency.\u00a0 The TCFD, the Taskforce on Climate Related Financial Disclosures is requiring increasingly reporting on those things.\u00a0 So, I don\u2019t think any company can ignore it.\u00a0 In fact, I think if any director of a company these days was to operate ignoring these issues, they would probably be liable for, you know, neglect of their duties, of their directors\u2019 duties.<\/p>\n<p>So, being Paris aligned is helpful in the sense that it\u2019s a global agreement people can look at what two degrees or less than two degrees means.\u00a0 It will require them to look at what they do and how they do it and work out how they are going to do it in a net zero or a zero-carbon world and big financial investors like Black Rock are now asking directors of the companies they are invested in to show them their strategy related to climate and to show them how they are going to get to a net zero world.\u00a0 So, I think the pressure is on.\u00a0 I don\u2019t mean that in a bad way, I think it can be seen as a positive in the sense that it will drive innovation and companies that don\u2019t read the rooms and don\u2019t understand and are not aware of those issues, will go to the wall.\u00a0 I mean I think it\u2019s Mark Carney basically said, \u2018Firms that ignore the climate issue will go bankrupt,\u2019 and I think that\u2019s blunt but I think that\u2019s exactly right.<\/p>\n<p>DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Oil and gas though is in a particular place because it is ultimately producing the hydrocarbon and the fossil fuels that are producing, you know, when they are combusted, ultimately the carbon that is warming up our atmosphere, but it is also the lifeline of their business.\u00a0 So, in one way they are stuck between a rock and a hard place as to the pace of change and what they do.\u00a0 So, hydrocarbons are not going to disappear overnight.\u00a0 Could you maybe just talk about your view of the pace that these companies need to be changing at to give a sense to the listener?<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 I think to start with David, you know, let\u2019s face it, oil, gas and before it coal were the drivers of our economic growth and prosperity.\u00a0 They are amazing materials and for a long time, they were used to drive economic growth in genuine ignorance of the impact it was having on the wider world.\u00a0 So, this idea that they are the problem is a relatively recent thing and I think it hurts, you know, investing in the oil and gas world and energy world for your career, suddenly being the bad guy doesn\u2019t feel very nice.\u00a0 The fact remains, the science is undeniable, and it does mean that these are some of the biggest and richest companies in the world and they are attracting significant attention.<\/p>\n<p>The upside is that they are often very well resourced.\u00a0 Financially, they are wealthy, they have the opportunity to invest in the solution, but they haven\u2019t got long to do it, you know, you talked about timing, the timing is yesterday if we can do it.\u00a0 We are already seeing sea levels rise, we are already seeing crop failures, we are already seeing dramatic temperature shifts and climate shifts.\u00a0 So, the idea that we can make this transition last 20, 30, 40, 50 years doesn\u2019t stack up in terms of the science and that in the end is what is going to drive things.\u00a0 It\u2019s worth noting that when Covid started last year, politicians and the Prime Minister made an absolute point of having scientists standing next door to them in the briefing room at Number 10 and they are saying, \u2018Look, these are difficult decisions but we are being guided by the science here,\u2019 well actually, climate change requires some difficult decisions but politicians seemed to have managed to avoid being guided by the science for the last 10 or 20 years, as the urgency became more and more apparent.<\/p>\n<p>I think that will change.\u00a0 I think that politicians are going to say, \u2018Look, the science is absolutely clear here, there are things at risk, which are too important and too expensive, we have to change.\u2019\u00a0 And whether they then use taxation, whether they use regulation, whether they use incentives for the alternatives, but they will get things changed and they will get things changed because we, I hope, as a population will demand it.<\/p>\n<p>DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 And that\u2019s a really interesting point as well.\u00a0 I think that the difference here or a lot of what you are talking about is around what I will call maybe the systemic changes to how we fundamentally change the structure to incentivise certain types of energy or support certain types of energy and businesses versus others to help transition our economies.\u00a0 But what about what I call individual actions?\u00a0 So, is there an onus on us as individuals to do the right thing as well and partly the reason I ask this is a lot of discussion is on not eating meat, you know, making the choice to buy an EV and all those types of things.\u00a0 So, where does that fit in your mind of systemic change versus individual action?<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 Well, it\u2019s both and.\u00a0 I mean that\u2019s a, kind of, slightly cop out answer to your question.\u00a0 The system is desperately locked in at the moment in terms of infrastructure, hard infrastructure and mindsets to the exploitation of fossil fuels and we have done very well on it but that needs to change, and the system needs to reflect that fact.\u00a0 It\u2019s not just oil and gas as I have suggested.\u00a0 To give you an idea, the third largest contributor of greenhouse gas on the planet is the global cow herd, the herd of cows.\u00a0 Cows produce more greenhouse gas impact than twice India, so there is going to need to be a change way beyond just how we move about and how we, you know, manufacture, and distribute goods.\u00a0 It\u2019s going to be what we do and how we behave and that will, to a large degree, be down to individual understanding and awareness as people, as responsible people.<\/p>\n<p>My experience David is that if I give a talk on the nature of the kind of, global trends and what is going well and what is going badly and I start by asking people in the room, \u2018Anybody got a child under the age of 10 or a grandchild or a nephew or a niece?\u2019\u00a0 And most people put their hands up and I say, \u2018Right, everything I am going to tell you will happen in their lifetime,\u2019 and I then go on to describe a set of pretty hairy outcomes if we don\u2019t significantly change the way we do things now.\u00a0 Looking out of the window here today, it\u2019s sunny, it\u2019s fine, we are comfortable etcetera, etcetera, you don\u2019t get the sense that we are sitting in a situation where unless we make a significant change and I don\u2019t think that has to be worse, I think it can be an improvement, we are going to leave a legacy, a significantly less stable and less comfortable world for our children.\u00a0 We will be fine, our children less so, any grandchildren absolutely less so.<\/p>\n<p>DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Okay, wow.\u00a0 Thank you, Will.\u00a0 Maybe the final question I have is around, you know, if I were to be a cynic and you and I both sit in the UK, very much in what I would call the European context of things and I have certainly seen the discussion move forward significantly over the last, well arguably just the last year but maybe the last couple of years in particular.\u00a0 It has always been there but it\u2019s maybe more public and more real in the last year or so.\u00a0 Is this just a European story that we are talking about because we started to accept the science more, we have had, you know, Greta on our doorstep and people are talking about it more here but actually in other parts of the world, and I am thinking of, you know, Asia and Americas in particular, this is less something that\u2019s on, you know, in the boardroom and within government agenda.<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 I think you\u2019re right.\u00a0 I think if you are confronting populations living in poverty who wish to have their lives improved, we all know that energy and access to energy is a fundamental part of growing prosperity and wellbeing, so that\u2019s fine.\u00a0 The question is not do people need energy and do they need functioning economies?\u00a0 It\u2019s how are those economies going to be, you know, run and where is the energy going to come from?\u00a0 I give you an example if we get it wrong, you know, if we warm the planets to an average of two degrees, which we are more than heading for now, over time between 75 and 100 per cent of the population of Bangladesh now live on land that will be flooded as an example.<\/p>\n<p>Climate impacts the poor much more than it impacts the rich, that\u2019s an obvious thing.\u00a0 The rich can buy the air conditioning or buy their way out or move house, the poor can\u2019t.\u00a0 Between 25 and 50 per cent of the populations of Australia and New Zealand currently live on land that will be flooded in a 2-degree world.\u00a0 So, these are absolutely enormous consequences, not just for the prosperous but for the entire planet and those who will suffer the most are those who are least able.\u00a0 They have got the quietest voice in international negotiations.\u00a0 Even within their own countries, they have often got the quietest voice and they will be impacted the most.<\/p>\n<p>So, you know, I don\u2019t think\u2026and going back to your very first question, to move towards a more sustainable global society and economy, we are going to need to address a whole range of things, amongst which is the absolutely clear link between greenhouse gas emissions and global health in every sense of the word and that is why it often comes, you know, climate often comes to the top of the list of things to do because these are things that we have a lever on.\u00a0 I think we should be looking at it positively.\u00a0 I think we should be seeing this as an opportunity to drive innovation, do things better, you know, electric cars are not like milk floats anymore, they are actually much, you know, they are fun to drive.\u00a0 So, and they are brilliant, and they do lots of things right.\u00a0 I don\u2019t hold them out as the only answer, but I think it\u2019s an illustration that when we start to apply ourselves to getting things better, not doing the wrong thing better but working out what the right thing is, then that\u2019s a huge opportunity.\u00a0 This is often a very gloomy agenda item, I think we should turn it around and say clearly there are risks, let\u2019s work out what the opportunities are.<\/p>\n<p>DL:\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Great, thank you Will.\u00a0 I totally agree, you know, you mentioned it right at the\u2026well, halfway through I guess, around mindset as well and having the right mindset for this and turning it into an opportunity is absolutely the right thing.\u00a0 I am afraid that\u2019s all we have time for today but that was very insightful and thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us today on sustainability and particularly also, you know, the role of energy within that.\u00a0 So, thank you again, Will.<\/p>\n<p>WD:\u00a0 Thank you for asking me.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Copyright and Reproduction<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>This website contains material which is owned by or licensed to Westwood Global Energy Group. This material includes, but is not limited to, the design, layout, look, appearance and graphics. You may not modify, reproduce or distribute the content, design or layout of the Website, or individual sections of the content, design or layout of the Website, without our express prior written permission. For media enquiries, please contact westwood@aspectusgroup.com[\/vc_column_text][\/tab][\/tabbed_section][\/vc_column][\/vc_row][vc_row type=&#8221;in_container&#8221; full_screen_row_position=&#8221;middle&#8221; column_margin=&#8221;default&#8221; column_direction=&#8221;default&#8221; column_direction_tablet=&#8221;default&#8221; column_direction_phone=&#8221;default&#8221; scene_position=&#8221;center&#8221; text_color=&#8221;dark&#8221; text_align=&#8221;left&#8221; row_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; row_border_radius_applies=&#8221;bg&#8221; overflow=&#8221;visible&#8221; disable_element=&#8221;yes&#8221; overlay_strength=&#8221;0.3&#8243; gradient_direction=&#8221;left_to_right&#8221; shape_divider_position=&#8221;bottom&#8221; bg_image_animation=&#8221;none&#8221; shape_type=&#8221;&#8221;][vc_column column_padding=&#8221;no-extra-padding&#8221; column_padding_tablet=&#8221;inherit&#8221; column_padding_phone=&#8221;inherit&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;all&#8221; column_element_direction_desktop=&#8221;default&#8221; column_element_spacing=&#8221;default&#8221; desktop_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; tablet_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; phone_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; background_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; background_hover_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; column_backdrop_filter=&#8221;none&#8221; column_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; column_link_target=&#8221;_self&#8221; column_position=&#8221;default&#8221; gradient_direction=&#8221;left_to_right&#8221; overlay_strength=&#8221;0.3&#8243; width=&#8221;1\/4&#8243; tablet_width_inherit=&#8221;default&#8221; animation_type=&#8221;default&#8221; bg_image_animation=&#8221;none&#8221; border_type=&#8221;simple&#8221; column_border_width=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_style=&#8221;solid&#8221;][image_with_animation image_url=&#8221;11554&#8243; image_size=&#8221;full&#8221; animation_type=&#8221;entrance&#8221; animation=&#8221;Fade In&#8221; animation_easing=&#8221;default&#8221; animation_movement_type=&#8221;transform_y&#8221; hover_animation=&#8221;none&#8221; alignment=&#8221;&#8221; border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; box_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; image_loading=&#8221;default&#8221; max_width=&#8221;100%&#8221; max_width_mobile=&#8221;default&#8221;][\/vc_column][vc_column column_padding=&#8221;no-extra-padding&#8221; column_padding_tablet=&#8221;inherit&#8221; column_padding_phone=&#8221;inherit&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;all&#8221; column_element_direction_desktop=&#8221;default&#8221; column_element_spacing=&#8221;default&#8221; desktop_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; tablet_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; phone_text_alignment=&#8221;default&#8221; background_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; background_hover_color_opacity=&#8221;1&#8243; column_backdrop_filter=&#8221;none&#8221; column_shadow=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; column_link_target=&#8221;_self&#8221; column_position=&#8221;default&#8221; gradient_direction=&#8221;left_to_right&#8221; overlay_strength=&#8221;0.3&#8243; width=&#8221;3\/4&#8243; tablet_width_inherit=&#8221;default&#8221; animation_type=&#8221;default&#8221; bg_image_animation=&#8221;none&#8221; border_type=&#8221;simple&#8221; column_border_width=&#8221;none&#8221; column_border_style=&#8221;solid&#8221;][vc_column_text]Will is Sustainability Advisor, and a Fellow of the University of Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership (CISL) and Chairman of the Sainsbury\u2019s Foundation Advisory Board.<br \/>\nHe sits on the Advisory Boards of SDGLead, a Danish impact investment consultancy and The Hatchery, a South African agri-focused investment fund. Will is also Chairman of On Purpose, developing leaders for Social Enterprise, and a Member of the Council of Ambassadors of WWF (UK).[\/vc_column_text][\/vc_column][\/vc_row][vc_row type=&#8221;in_container&#8221; full_screen_row_position=&#8221;middle&#8221; column_margin=&#8221;default&#8221; column_direction=&#8221;default&#8221; column_direction_tablet=&#8221;default&#8221; column_direction_phone=&#8221;default&#8221; scene_position=&#8221;center&#8221; text_color=&#8221;dark&#8221; text_align=&#8221;left&#8221; row_border_radius=&#8221;none&#8221; row_border_radius_applies=&#8221;bg&#8221; overflow=&#8221;visible&#8221; overlay_strength=&#8221;0.3&#8243; gradient_direction=&#8221;left_to_right&#8221; shape_divider_position=&#8221;bottom&#8221; bg_image_animation=&#8221;none&#8221;][vc_column column_padding=&#8221;no-extra-padding&#8221; column_padding_tablet=&#8221;inherit&#8221; column_padding_phone=&#8221;inherit&#8221; column_padding_position=&#8221;all&#8221; column_element_direction_desktop=&#8221;default&#8221; 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